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Visionary artists draw maps of the ineffable for the rest of us. In today’s episode, Alex Grey talks with Ken about his approach to this visionary plane, and the steps it took for him to give himself fully to expressions of the cosmic. In the process, they discuss Alex’s deep connection to Ram Dass, his thoughts about gurus, about working with shadow material, the drug war, and what it’s like to see your artwork tattooed on thousands of people. They also dive into the inspiration behind the Sacred Mirrors – the series of 21 paintings of spiritual states that took Alex a decade to complete – and the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, or CoSM, the home of those paintings and as well as a home base for Visionary Art and psychedelic spirituality in upstate NY.

Alex Grey is the author of Sacred Mirrors, Transfigurations, The Mission of Art, and Art Psalms. His work has graced numerous album covers including those of Nirvana, TOOL, and the Beastie Boys; and been exhibited throughout the world. In 2004, Alex and his wife, artist Allyson Grey, opened the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors (CoSM) in New York City, a gallery and sacred space for Alex’s original paintings and other visionary artworks. In 2009, CoSM, now a church, moved from Manhattan to the Hudson Valley.

You can find out more about Alex Grey and his work at and at